Schwarzman Scholars: A Panel Podcast on Adaptations to a Global Pandemic
Amy Wang (Director of Content at BT) is joined by past and current Schwarzman Scholars Michael Shin ('19) and Amanda Morrison ('20) in a discussion of the value of cross border communication and how the program has adapted to the global pandemic. Listen to the panelists discuss present challenges for global cooperation and share advice for those interested in the Schwarzman Program.
Michael Shin graduated magna cum laude from Princeton University with a bachelor’s degree from the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs. Having spent his childhood in South Korea, China, Jordan, the US, and India, he is passionate about international trade, finance, and global business, with a particular emphasis on the economies of Asia and the Middle East. He has previously worked in the Office of His Majesty King Abdullah II of Jordan and has served as a Special Forces paratrooper in South Korea, United Nations peacekeeper in Lebanon, and South Korean presidential bodyguard in India. He currently works at a global investment bank in New York City.
Amanda Morrison graduated summa cum laude from Princeton University in 2019 with a bachelor’s degree from the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs. She was a magazine editor and chief of staff for Business Today and held leadership roles in other organizations, including BodyHype Dance Company, 1080princeton, the Mental Health Initiative and the Vote100 Initiative. Originally from Montana, Amanda is a documentary filmmaker and writer who explores authority, inequality, politics, and art. She has worked at two film production companies in Los Angeles and at the US-Asia Law Institute in New York City where her research focused on media policy and law enforcement in China. She is currently a Schwarzman Scholar pursuing a master’s degree in Global Affairs from Tsinghua University in Beijing, China.
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Amy Wang (BT): Hello! My name is Amy, and I’m the Director of Content for Business Today. In our second podcast series, I am joined by Michael and Amanda, a former and current Schwarzman Scholar, in a discussion of how the program has been adapting to the COVID-19 crisis. Schwarzman Scholars is a highly selective, one-year master’s program at Tsinghua University in Beijing that is designed to prepare the next generation of global leaders for the challenges of the future. The curriculum bridges the academic and professional worlds to educate students about leadership and about China’s expanding role in the world.
Michael Shin (MS): So, hey, I’m Michael! Thanks for having me. I graduated from Princeton in the Class of 2018 (I was in the Woodrow Wilson School), and I am a 2019 graduate of the Schwarzman Scholars program, so I went straight there after I graduated from Princeton. Now, I am in New York and working as an investment banker, essentially in Midtown.
Amanda Morrison (AM): Awesome; thanks so much for having us Amy! I’m excited to talk [about the program]. I’m currently in my hometown of Helena, Montana, where I’ve been for a couple of months now since coming home from the Schwarzman Scholars program. I’m a current scholar, Class of 2020; I graduated from Princeton last year in 2019, also from the Woodrow Wilson School, and I did certificates in East Asian Studies and Film Production as well, and particularly was interested in kind of media and politics in China and how that affected the U.S.-China relationship. Other things I did on campus: I was in the dance community, I was in BodyHype, and did other media stuff on campus, including with BT; some work on the magazines as well as DesigNation, so [I] have fond memories of Business Today.
BT: Absolutely; thank you so much for sharing! One of the first questions that we have prepared was, just in light of the current crisis, how do you think having exposure to so many global backgrounds, and also to the programming from Schwarzman Scholars, has affected the way that you’re thinking about coronavirus and everything that’s going around?
MS: I do have prior experience living abroad and spending time with people whose backgrounds are very different from my own, but spending time in China as a Schwarzman Scholar was very different, in the sense that you’re actually living with these people; it’s not just a class that you’re taking with them, or a seminar or a sports game that you’re watching with them. You’re actually living with them, eating [with them], staying in the same place, you’re studying together, you are traveling together, and so you really get to bring down the barriers and talk with them to find out how they think about the world and how their countries think about the world.
So to bring it back to your question about the coronavirus, the time that I spent as a scholar helped me appreciate that different countries are dealt different hands, in the sense that this one of the few times in human history where almost every country on earth [is] suddenly faced with the same crisis, and that’s this pandemic, and the way that they have responded to that is, you could say, constrained by the political and social conditions of each country.
Countries respond differently, and what works in one country perhaps cannot be implemented in another, and I just simply hope that after this pandemic is over, we do get to take the good and the bad, the lessons that we’ve drawn from the experience, so that each country can tailor responses to situations like this that are better in context with the political and social conditions that they have. So that’s just my two-cents.
AM: In short, the global exposure of the Schwarzman program just highlights the importance of global cooperation, and in nowhere is that clearer than the current crisis, and to jump off what Michael was saying, this has really shown that not only have countries been dealt different hands, but the world is more interconnected than ever, and every country, especially those with the capacity to do so, has an interest in helping other countries and improving circumstances, everywhere because issues like this current health crisis, but also climate crises, don’t know bounds or borders.
And certain conditions in one countries aren’t isolated to that one country, and so this has just been a very stark reminder of the interconnectivity of the world that we’re living in, but something that has affect me more firsthand in being in the Schwarzman program during this crisis has been access to this incredible network of perspectives from around the world as the country, as the world, is confronting the virus, and it has given me a greater, if not disheartening, understanding of how the rest of the world is perceiving American actions and rhetoric.
Over our group chats, people are debating things like the US stopping all medical supplies, exports, or terminating funding to the World Health Organization and our ally countries from Canada to Latin American countries; a classmate in Brazil and I talked about how the perception in those countries towards the US is changing, and really this frustration towards the US about not being able to rely on an ally in times of need, and so hearing it directly from my classmates has been a very eye-opening experience for how the role of the US is changing on the global stage as well as other countries’ perceptions of it.
BT: A question that goes off of both of your points, is just it seems as though in the past few months, there have been a series of events that have really strained US-China relationships, whether its developments within journalism, technology, and trade. What role do you think the Schwarzman Scholars program is going to play in changing this particular trajectory?
AM: The official mission of Schwarzman is to build a bridge between China and the world, but not just an artificial one. It's about developing deeper understandings of other countries, so we can better understand where countries are coming from when they are pursuing their interests and working towards some future of global cooperation. Essentially, that it’s more important to confront uncomfortable truths than to turn away from them, and I think that Schwarzman provides an incredible opportunity and platform to do exactly that. You’re able, with your peers, to question and critique and debate very challenging issues that don’t have a singular answer but allow you to build your own philosophy towards politics and international relations in a way that I hadn’t had an opportunity to do before. Ideally, if we’re the people who have a say in the relations in the future, we can expect greater understanding or at least make some strides in improving the relationship. We need that now more than ever.
MS: Yes, Amanda hit it right on the nail. Just to add to that. one essential role that many of the friends in my cohort and also in the alumni classes above me, is that they are often the voices of representation, representing China and explaining that what other people in other countries might perceive about China and its citizens might not be true — in the sense that there might be miscommunication going on. Or also representing the opinion that perhaps it's simply a matter of difference in opinion.
For me personally, I lived in China for six years before I attended [the Program], so I thought I knew the country quite well. But, let me tell you, the one year I spent there really gave me exposure to how people think and how people live in China. For example, I always had some ironclad beliefs about certain criticisms against China [like] human rights. It's a controversial topic, but I personally had my own opinion about it. But I spoke to several Chinese students as well as high-ranking business executives in China, and the way they perceived the situation was very enlightening. I just don’t want to talk about the specifics because I don’t want to dive into an ideological discussion, but it's the idea that I was confident in my beliefs about certain issues.
And yet, the year that you spend [there], because it's so immersive, because you’re surrounded by all these talented people, but also because you’re experiencing China in its bare nakedness, you start to reflect on your own assumptions — assumptions that might have been preventing you from understanding a country that is already so misunderstood. That is one thing that the Schwarzman Scholars program does so well, it exposes you to so many different aspects of Chinese society in a short period of time. So yes, it's absolutely a necessary program, and the alumni have been great ambassadors for their own countries as well as China wherever they go.
AM: To add on one more thing … The program does a wonderful job, also, and this is partly the experience among scholars as well as living in China, you are exposed to all of these different aspects of the country as well as the different types of people there. What contributes to the misunderstanding of China is that people paint with such a broad brush about what the country is and who the people are. You hear in the media these statements about what all Chinese people think or [that] equate the government to the people. While there are philosophical debates there about the interplay between the two, but when you’re living [there] for a year, especially when you’re in an academic setting, you see how many different opinions and perspectives there are among your Chinese classmates and the Chinese people you meet, you know, on workplace visits or trips to companies, organizations, or other initiatives around the country. And I think that exposure to the different opinions that exist within China, among Chinese people, is an important part of complicating — in a good way — the narrative around China.
BT: It seems as though both of you benefited a lot from being physically immersed in China and also in having these types of conversations so naturally with the people around you. Given that everyone is home now, how has the program been adapting to the challenges posed by COVID-19?
AM: That is a very important question. The program truly is such an immersive experience, and the value in large part is from living in China and living among the other scholars. But we’ve also been grateful and impressed with the way the program has been able to adapt to these unusual times.
Something that I’ve really appreciated is all my professors have incorporated the current crisis into the content of the courses. In my Chinese political institutions class, we looked at the way that the bureaucracy and political structures [affect] the Chinese response to the virus, and one of our writing responses was to write a memo to the leading small-group on the virus, [evaluate] its current response, and [provide] recommendations. I think that was a wonderful example of taking this as a learning experience and turning pretty unfortunate circumstances into something that can be used to our educational benefit.
There’s also been a strong effort to maintain the Schwarzman community online through a continuation of the programs that we all had in the college, from all of the guest speakers to our own peer-learning programs, from giving small talks about our personal expertise areas or interests to community discussions about current affairs. All of that stuff is continuing online in an effort to adapt to this.
One last thing, the speakers who are speaking to us right now are [also] directly working on virus-related issues or, like most people right now, everyone is in their field thinking about how the virus affects their area of expertise. We had Andrew Ross Sorkin speak to our cohort as well as alumni about the economic implications of the virus. We had the president of the Council on Foreign Relations, Richard Haass, talk to us about what this means for the world order. It really has been turned into a learning experience, so we can apply what we’ve been spending our year doing — looking at global affairs and particularly China’s role in global affairs — to the current crisis.
MS: One thing I wanted to add about what the program is doing is that outside of the curriculum, I understand that the admissions office is changing the way, at least this year, they are generating interest in the program. They’ve accepted the fact that campus information sessions, the professional outreach programs, all of them are going to have to be virtual. That is the reality. But they are juggling with different ways to make sure they get the outreach that they want. Alumni play a big role in brainstorming ideas for this, making sure that they are able to recommend qualified applicants from their own networks, and volunteering for other types of activities such as virtual info sessions or outreach sessions.
BT: The next question is also for both of you. And perhaps [Michael] will have a different take on it, given that he’s graduated from the program, but what do you miss most about not being on campus?
MS: The Schwarzman campus is that it really feels like a home. You could say the same about Princeton’s campus but as I mentioned before, the fact that you are living in such close proximity to these amazing people really makes it a home in China. When you wake up, you can leave your room and immediately strike up a conversation with someone who lives across from you. When you sit down at the dining halls, you can have the most controversial conversations while also being in a safe place.
That's the biggest thing for me. Being able to open your door and to find someone who you can genuinely enjoy hours of your time with. And, of course, there are many other exhilarating things, such as the amazing food [and] the fact that there are so many professors nearby and activities to do with your fellow students. It's so easy to get around in China, and so within a matter of hours, you could suddenly decide to go to Xiamen with five or six other scholars. And you buy your tickets then and there, and you’re out the door the next day. All of those things I truly miss. The next opportunity I get, I would go back on campus and relish and relive my memories there.
AM: That sums up everything that I’m devastated I’m missing right now … The most important part of the Schwarzman experience, to me, was the community. Something that is very unique about the Schwarzman program compared to some other fellowships is that we are all living together in this one building that becomes your home, as Michael said, in China that is just a space of constant learning in really fun and unexpected ways.
So even though I can still call people over Facetime right now, it's not the same spontaneity that existed in the college, where you could run into someone and strike up an interesting conversation about what you were researching or reading, or make plans to do a trip that weekend to a new city in China. So those experiences that are pretty unparalleled are the ones that I miss the most. And I had so many hopes for the spring that will not be fulfilled.
But our whole cohort is optimistic about returning at some point for a reunion and hopefully for some meaningful amount of time, to be able to have some of the experiences we weren’t able to have this spring in Beijing and around China. But going back to the question, about the adaptation, it has been telling of the technical capabilities we have now, but it's been possible to continue building relationships virtually. It's not ideal, but it's nice to have [the] capability to continue to get to know people, continue to learn even though we’re not in the Schwarzman space together.
BT: I’m glad to hear that both the alumni community and present scholars have done a really great job to adapt to everything that is happening. A question that goes off of that, given that there’s been so much attention on COVID-19 and China as a result of it, what do you think are some of the really pressing issues and trends between China and the rest of the world that might be getting neglected at this point?
MS: One thing that always surprises me about how other countries view China is that they still think of it as very underdeveloped in certain aspects, whether its … It's not a question of political systems, but just in terms of how people live their daily lives, there is this perception that I hear from, say my friends in Korea or my friends in the United States, that Chinese citizens live very inconvenient lives.
China is a big country, and it is very unwise to paint broad generalizations, but at least in major cities, China is such an incredibly convenient place to live. In the sense that, the digital infrastructure, the transportation infrastructure is just so well-developed that, to be frank, it blows the United States and places like New York out of the water. And that's one thing I wish people in other countries would appreciate more because going to China and really seeing how people live their lives, the fact that you don’t even need to print your ticket to get on the train anymore in China. If you’re a Chinese citizens, you just buy the ticket on what is the equivalent of Facebook — in China, it's called WeChat — and you don’t even need to print a ticket, you just scan your social security card which you have when you enter the car, and that's all you need to do. So just these little benefits make living in China so much more convenient.
And as I said, that’s one big reason why there's such a heavy emphasis on continued digital investments, infrastructure development in China, and, that's the core aspect that people I wish would understand better. And it's not just a matter of coronavirus eclipsing those things, but it's just not played up much in the media, whether it's in China or the United States. So yes, I do wish people would pay more attention to that
AM: My research area of interest is media control in China. And that has received a good amount of attention in regards to the coronavirus, as various countries are fighting over the framing of the virus, the origin of the virus, the response to the virus. And it's really put the propaganda wars on full display, but I think that there is not necessarily enough attention given to other areas in which the control of the media plays out. For instance, there is a big effort to export a lot of Chinese state-run, state-sponsored media.
There are programs to train scores of foreign journalists to go out in the world to tell China’s story well, and fund media efforts in other countries to reshape the narrative from countries outside of China, rather than just within China. Those issues of media control leaving China … if you study China at all, you learn about the censorship that exists within the country, but to understand ways in which it could creep overseas is important in figuring out how to best address the issue … There's so many factors involved and ways that it can play out that affects not only those in China, but people around the world that it deserves more attention.
BT: It’s incredible that you’ve been able to explore that issue so thoroughly with the Schwarzman Scholars program, where we’re even able to live through digitalization and what that means for China. To conclude, the last question that I have to ask is: what piece of advice would you want to share with those who are interested in the Schwarzman Scholars program or who are navigating the application process right now, especially given the conditions that we’re under today?
AM: This virus and crisis has really highlighted the importance of the program, and this would be a fascinating time for future cohorts. Starting next year, it’s going to be fascinating to be in China as the world recovers from this pandemic, and as U.S.-China relations are trying to work through what is perhaps the most challenging era yet for the two countries. In terms of the appeal to the program, this is a great time to apply.
It’s just important to represent yourself authentically and really tell the program what you want to get out of the program. You don’t need a China background to gain a lot from the background or for the program to gain a lot from your presence there. You don’t need to make up a reason that makes sense to go. Really ask yourself what you’re curious about learning from a year in China and try to distinguish yourself based on what makes you unique in the application process.
MS: As Amanda also mentioned, there is no need to have a background in China. In fact, many of my best friends in the program did not speak a word of Chinese. It’s important to have a strong interest, I think, in the country, and my advice for that is just to read up a little bit on a topic in China that interests you. It could be about digitalization, political institutions, the media, entertainment...even just seemingly surface-level articles about how Marvel movies need to include certain things in order to be shown in China. Just something that piques your interest and that you can dive deep into.
Because, as was mentioned already, your genuine authentic interest in China and also interest in what you’ve done already, is going to be a major factor in your application, and there’s so many stages where they check that, where they check your authenticity. They look for it in your essays, and when you’re doing your interviews, you have a panel of some of the most intimidating, but also amazing senior leaders from around the world, who are really good at telling if you genuinely believe in what you’re saying or not. And so, that would be my advice. Find a genuine thing that interests you about China and see how that works into your plans for the future.